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sharpsshooter wrote:
Replying to Rowen:
It is unfortunate that others do not have religious freedoms that Americans enjoy. My whole point is just that everyone has the freedom to practice their own religion -or no religion for that matter-in America. Let's not change that.
But, we should all make sure that our belief systems do not disrespect or infringe on other people.
We should not favor any religion over another.
I am a citizen of this country too. I should be allowed the same freedoms as my Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Jewish, Buddist, ect... neighbor. The problem is..... only one of the above maybe two, has actual freedoms without criticizm in our country (that incidently brags about freedom of religion).
While some of the others just SUE to get their way!
9/19/2008 1:27:50 AM
It is unfortunate that others do not have religious freedoms that Americans enjoy. My whole point is just that everyone has the freedom to practice their own religion -or no religion for that matter-in America. Let's not change that.
But, we should all make sure that our belief systems do not disrespect or infringe on other people.
We should not favor any religion over another.
I am a citizen of this country too. I should be allowed the same freedoms as my Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Jewish, Buddist, ect... neighbor. The problem is..... only one of the above maybe two, has actual freedoms without criticizm in our country (that incidently brags about freedom of religion).
While some of the others just SUE to get their way! sharpsshooter
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Rowen wrote:
It is unfortunate that others do not have religious freedoms that Americans enjoy. My whole point is just that everyone has the freedom to practice their own religion -or no religion for that matter-in America. Let's not change that.
But, we should all make sure that our belief systems do not disrespect or infringe on other people.
We should not favor any religion over another.
I am a citizen of this country too. I should be allowed the same freedoms as my Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Jewish, Buddist, ect... neighbor. The problem is..... only one of the above maybe two, has actual freedoms without criticizm in our country (that incidently brags about freedom of religion).
9/18/2008 10:20:19 PM It is unfortunate that others do not have religious freedoms that Americans enjoy. My whole point is just that everyone has the freedom to practice their own religion -or no religion for that matter-in America. Let's not change that.
But, we should all make sure that our belief systems do not disrespect or infringe on other people.
We should not favor any religion over another.
I am a citizen of this country too. I should be allowed the same freedoms as my Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Jewish, Buddist, ect... neighbor. The problem is..... only one of the above maybe two, has actual freedoms without criticizm in our country (that incidently brags about freedom of religion). Rowen
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legallybrunette wrote:
Replying to Rowen:
If a Christian family migrated to Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Iran, or Nigeria, etc... would schools or businesses in those countries put up a Christmas Tree or allow people to be absent from school/work for an unknown/uncelebrated holiday.... in order to make the Christian children (who are now the minority) at home and comforted?
I have only travelled to Nigeria (of the above countries) and I did not experience any type of religious confrontation... so I don't know.
Does anyone else know?
By the way- I do totally agree with this statement- IF public schools did not include Christian elements. which it is unfortunate that they do. Private schools are available and should be used if available and your beliefs warrant it. It wouldn't bother us if a random winter break was established. it is just the fact that Christians get their holidays in public school and the rest of the religions don't that seems/is unfair when trying to explain to kids when they ask why.
9/18/2008 10:04:12 PM If a Christian family migrated to Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Iran, or Nigeria, etc... would schools or businesses in those countries put up a Christmas Tree or allow people to be absent from school/work for an unknown/uncelebrated holiday.... in order to make the Christian children (who are now the minority) at home and comforted?
I have only travelled to Nigeria (of the above countries) and I did not experience any type of religious confrontation... so I don't know.
Does anyone else know?
By the way- I do totally agree with this statement- IF public schools did not include Christian elements. which it is unfortunate that they do. Private schools are available and should be used if available and your beliefs warrant it. It wouldn't bother us if a random winter break was established. it is just the fact that Christians get their holidays in public school and the rest of the religions don't that seems/is unfair when trying to explain to kids when they ask why.
legallybrunette
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Rowen wrote:
Replying to LakesnLife:
If the existing situation is unsatisfactory... Home school, or get the Muslim community to start a private school.
By the way- I do totally agree with this statement- IF public schools did not include Christian elements. which it is unfortunate that they do. Private schools are available and should be used if available and your beliefs warrant it. It wouldn't bother us if a random winter break was established. it is just the fact that Christians get their holidays in public school and the rest of the religions don't that seems/is unfair when trying to explain to kids when they ask why.
9/18/2008 9:46:13 PM
If the existing situation is unsatisfactory... Home school, or get the Muslim community to start a private school.
By the way- I do totally agree with this statement- IF public schools did not include Christian elements. which it is unfortunate that they do. Private schools are available and should be used if available and your beliefs warrant it. It wouldn't bother us if a random winter break was established. it is just the fact that Christians get their holidays in public school and the rest of the religions don't that seems/is unfair when trying to explain to kids when they ask why. Rowen
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legallybrunette wrote:
HAHAHA! Nice... I like the way you think, freethinker. You remind me a college friend... he is now an agnostic neuroscientist and I'm a bloody bored barrister.
afreethinker wrote:
"I pledge allegiance..."
9/18/2008 9:39:46 PM
"I pledge allegiance..." afreethinker
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legallybrunette wrote:
You may feel fine... but you don't look fine. Maybe you feel the need to "tear others down" because you're a bloody fat cow.
[QUOTEbr />
By the way, I feel fine.
Thanks for your concern.[/QUOTE]
9/18/2008 9:30:35 PM You may feel fine... but you don't look fine. Maybe you feel the need to "tear others down" because you're a bloody fat cow.
[QUOTEbr />
By the way, I feel fine.
Thanks for your concern.[/QUOTE]
legallybrunette
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Rowen wrote:
Replying to LakesnLife:
If the existing situation is unsatisfactory... Home school, or get the Muslim community to start a private school.
And back to my original posts. If Christianity was not catered to in our PUBLIC, tax funded schools, I would agree that Muslims would not have a right to complain. But, since we have the Christian holidays supported covertly ( winter/spring break), I can see the argument they are making. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If people had the guts to look in their own backyard, they would quit complaining when others raise a valid point.
It is impossible to equally support all 200+ religions in the school. Therefore, we should eliminate ALL religious holidays. Maybe a floating winter break?
It would be best if we all respected other religions and made sure our own belief systems do not impose upon others rights.
9/18/2008 9:25:47 PM
If the existing situation is unsatisfactory... Home school, or get the Muslim community to start a private school.
And back to my original posts. If Christianity was not catered to in our PUBLIC, tax funded schools, I would agree that Muslims would not have a right to complain. But, since we have the Christian holidays supported covertly ( winter/spring break), I can see the argument they are making. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If people had the guts to look in their own backyard, they would quit complaining when others raise a valid point.
It is impossible to equally support all 200+ religions in the school. Therefore, we should eliminate ALL religious holidays. Maybe a floating winter break?
It would be best if we all respected other religions and made sure our own belief systems do not impose upon others rights. Rowen
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afreethinker wrote:
Nerdgirl, shouldn't the Pledge of Allegiance be capitalized?
I'm just sayin'...
being a teacher and all...
har har
9/18/2008 9:20:14 PM Nerdgirl, shouldn't the Pledge of Allegiance be capitalized?
I'm just sayin'...
being a teacher and all...
har har afreethinker
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nerdgirl1968 wrote:
Replying to legallybrunette:
nerdgirl - you only took a portion of what I said and commented on it. You don't have to tear down everyone in the forum to make your point... you have valid points and I do understand your view points. nerdgirl, I think you've probably had a rough day... and taking it out on other people online at sctimes.com makes you feel better. I hope you have a better evening.
I am not sure where you got the idea that I was "tearing down everyone on the forum" but it is interesting that you see it that way. I wonder if you would see it the same if I hadn't made a comment on your misinformation about the pledge of allegiance.
By the way, I feel fine.
Thanks for your concern.
If the existing situation is unsatisfactory... Home school, or get the Muslim community to start a private school.
9/18/2008 8:20:29 PM If the existing situation is unsatisfactory... Home school, or get the Muslim community to start a private school. LakesnLife
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legallybrunette wrote:
nerdgirl - you only took a portion of what I said and commented on it. You don't have to tear down everyone in the forum to make your point... you have valid points and I do understand your view points. nerdgirl, I think you've probably had a rough day... and taking it out on other people online at sctimes.com makes you feel better. I hope you have a better evening.
9/18/2008 8:05:44 PM nerdgirl - you only took a portion of what I said and commented on it. You don't have to tear down everyone in the forum to make your point... you have valid points and I do understand your view points. nerdgirl, I think you've probably had a rough day... and taking it out on other people online at sctimes.com makes you feel better. I hope you have a better evening. legallybrunette
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cablelayer wrote:
Nerdgirl,
Doesn't it depend on what the definition of is ...is...
9/18/2008 7:52:30 PM Nerdgirl,
Doesn't it depend on what the definition of is ...is...
cablelayer
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nerdgirl1968 wrote:
Replying to legallybrunette:
The other part of my mind thinks: Are we crazy? Work and School shoudn't be interrupted for a single group of people. The "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance for schools was removed so people wouldn't be offended. I think we're catering too much - separaration of Church and State was instituted for a reason.
You are right, they are separate. So why does our pledge of allegiance contain the words "under God" when it didn't contain those words as originally written?
By the way, "under God" is still in the pledge so I don't know where you are getting your information.
Also, as I stated before, if a small group of students leaving your class for a few minutes is a HUGE interruption, then you clearly have bigger problems with discipline and focus than are caused by those students.
9/18/2008 7:50:48 PM
The other part of my mind thinks: Are we crazy? Work and School shoudn't be interrupted for a single group of people. The "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance for schools was removed so people wouldn't be offended. I think we're catering too much - separaration of Church and State was instituted for a reason.
You are right, they are separate. So why does our pledge of allegiance contain the words "under God" when it didn't contain those words as originally written?
By the way, "under God" is still in the pledge so I don't know where you are getting your information.
Also, as I stated before, if a small group of students leaving your class for a few minutes is a HUGE interruption, then you clearly have bigger problems with discipline and focus than are caused by those students. nerdgirl1968
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nerdgirl1968 wrote:
Replying to justmehere:
No, I'm not bragging. I'm saying that he couldn't get out of class for a legitmate appointment. Yet, when he DID lie, it was regarding the issue noted in this article, and it seems the St. Cloud schools have a different view that Willmar. If my son couldn't leave class for an appointment, ALL kids should be kept in the classroom unless on a scheduled break.
If the attendance office hadn't contacted your son's teacher yet, perhaps he should have politely asked him/her to call them instead of lie about why he was leaving class. I am sure that he would have been allowed to leave class for the appointment if the teacher knew about it.
I assume that you punished him for lying to his teacher. Because lying is wrong. And regardless of how you feel about other children leaving class for prayer, we shouldn't teach our children to do wrong.
In your voice
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justmehere wrote:
No, I'm not bragging. I'm saying that he couldn't get out of class for a legitmate appointment. Yet, when he DID lie, it was regarding the issue noted in this article, and it seems the St. Cloud schools have a different view that Willmar. If my son couldn't leave class for an appointment, ALL kids should be kept in the classroom unless on a scheduled break.
9/18/2008 7:12:14 PM No, I'm not bragging. I'm saying that he couldn't get out of class for a legitmate appointment. Yet, when he DID lie, it was regarding the issue noted in this article, and it seems the St. Cloud schools have a different view that Willmar. If my son couldn't leave class for an appointment, ALL kids should be kept in the classroom unless on a scheduled break. justmehere
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legallybrunette wrote:
Hmm... This is such an interesting subject.
One part of my mind thinks: This is the United States of America - where people can live and be free from religious persecution, free to do as they please. And generally people are more productive if they're able to do things that will alleviate their stress (ie. check the football score at work, pray at the right time during class or work, etc...)
The other part of my mind thinks: Are we crazy? Work and School shoudn't be interrupted for a single group of people. The "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance for schools was removed so people wouldn't be offended. I think we're catering too much - separaration of Church and State was instituted for a reason.
There are Catholic/Christian schools where religion is a focus? Maybe Muslims could form private schools.
Lastly, I don't like the racism and segregation issues arising from this whole ordeal. "Go back to where you came from" is a horrible remark to make.
9/18/2008 7:10:27 PM Hmm... This is such an interesting subject.
One part of my mind thinks: This is the United States of America - where people can live and be free from religious persecution, free to do as they please. And generally people are more productive if they're able to do things that will alleviate their stress (ie. check the football score at work, pray at the right time during class or work, etc...)
The other part of my mind thinks: Are we crazy? Work and School shoudn't be interrupted for a single group of people. The "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance for schools was removed so people wouldn't be offended. I think we're catering too much - separaration of Church and State was instituted for a reason.
There are Catholic/Christian schools where religion is a focus? Maybe Muslims could form private schools.
Lastly, I don't like the racism and segregation issues arising from this whole ordeal. "Go back to where you came from" is a horrible remark to make. legallybrunette
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cablelayer wrote:
GRAND ISLAND, Nebraska — Managers at a Nebraska meatpacking plant have told Muslim employees, most of them Somali, that shift changes made to meet their prayer demands weren't working and would be ended.
Union president Dan Hoppes said Thursday that the workers reacted well to the news, but he didn't know whether they would walk out later in protest as they did Monday.
He and managers at the JBS Swift & Co. plant are still talking about meeting employee needs and maintaining plant production.
Workers were sitting down with managers for discussions before the second shift started Thursday afternoon.
Counterprotests by non-Muslim workers began Wednesday. They said the shift changes penalized them while favoring the Muslim workers.
9/18/2008 7:08:46 PM GRAND ISLAND, Nebraska — Managers at a Nebraska meatpacking plant have told Muslim employees, most of them Somali, that shift changes made to meet their prayer demands weren't working and would be ended.
Union president Dan Hoppes said Thursday that the workers reacted well to the news, but he didn't know whether they would walk out later in protest as they did Monday.
He and managers at the JBS Swift & Co. plant are still talking about meeting employee needs and maintaining plant production.
Workers were sitting down with managers for discussions before the second shift started Thursday afternoon.
Counterprotests by non-Muslim workers began Wednesday. They said the shift changes penalized them while favoring the Muslim workers.
cablelayer
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Rowen wrote:
Replying to heathshara:
Ok , I have no idea why you guys are even talking about christmas or easter this article isn't talking about that they are talking about muslim kids praying . I think that is is crap that the school's are catering to muslim's why don't they go back to where they came from.and everyone would be a little more happy !
The reason we are discussing holidays is because Ramadan is a religious holiday practiced by Muslim people. Ramadan is also mentioned in this article. Prayer times during Ramadan are conflicting with class times which is what started this issue in Wilmar. I made a comparison saying that Muslim holidays AND other religions are just as valid as the religious holidays practiced by Christian people (I.E. Christmas). Thus, all religious holidays should either be respected equally or not at all. I prefer not at all. Our schools respect Christian holidays and when another religion is mentioned, people like you spout off without even knowing who is being catered to.
9/18/2008 6:38:16 PM
Ok , I have no idea why you guys are even talking about christmas or easter this article isn't talking about that they are talking about muslim kids praying . I think that is is crap that the school's are catering to muslim's why don't they go back to where they came from.and everyone would be a little more happy !
The reason we are discussing holidays is because Ramadan is a religious holiday practiced by Muslim people. Ramadan is also mentioned in this article. Prayer times during Ramadan are conflicting with class times which is what started this issue in Wilmar. I made a comparison saying that Muslim holidays AND other religions are just as valid as the religious holidays practiced by Christian people (I.E. Christmas). Thus, all religious holidays should either be respected equally or not at all. I prefer not at all. Our schools respect Christian holidays and when another religion is mentioned, people like you spout off without even knowing who is being catered to. Rowen
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nerdgirl1968 wrote:
Whether or not Wilmar school is right or wrong, IMHO your class is pretty out of control and easily distracted if allowing a couple of children to leave for a few minutes is THAT much of a problem.
Children leave for all kinds of reasons. When they leave my class, especially if it is prearranged, I am often the only person who even notices.
